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CHOPIN: THE POET OF THE PIANO
 
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chopin
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Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:13 am    Post subject: Who said this? Reply with quote

Does anyone know who said this: If Mozart had lived in Chopin's time, he would have written his piano concertos like Chopin's.
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enchantedpianist



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Vietnam

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know about this. But both Mozart's and Chopin's concerto are so beautiful.
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MorrisseyMan



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not really sure who said it, but it is an interesting comparison.

I'm not really sure if I agree, though. I don't think that Mozart could have standed to have the first and second subjects have the same tonic-based tonality. (E Minor concerto; the first subject is in E minor, the second in E major)

That is an interesting quote.
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wanderer



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mozart's concerto No.23 & Chopin's concerto No.2 have the same pattern I think:

Mozart
Mvt 1 in A major (3 sharps)
Mvt 2 in F sharp minor (3 sharps)

Chopin
Mvt 1 in F minor (4 flats)
Mvt 2 in A flat major (4 flats)
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lol_nl



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Ede, Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wanderer wrote:
Mozart's concerto No.23 & Chopin's concerto No.2 have the same pattern I think:

Mozart
Mvt 1 in A major (3 sharps)
Mvt 2 in F sharp minor (3 sharps)

Chopin
Mvt 1 in F minor (4 flats)
Mvt 2 in A flat major (4 flats)


There are so many pieces with similar what you call "pattern". Many composers composed a middle section with the same amount of sharps/flats but then in the opposite key (so a major concerto often has a minor 2nd movement, and vice versa).
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Yiteng

"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music." - S. Rachmaninov
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wanderer



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but the modulation from E major to E minor is so wonderful. I love that in the second falling phrase of scherzo no.3 also. It reminds me of solemnity and nostalgy...
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Dean



Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2007 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chopin's piano concertos are built exactly according to the classical rules that take place in Mozart's concertos:

orchestral introduction, including the 2 main themes, than comes the piano playing the first theme, monivg (beautifully) to the seccond theme. Than comes a short orchestral part and than starts the development: the first theme is played in Major at first. Than comes a stormy section with arpegios and stuff... and than we go back to the previous themes wich take us to the end of the movement.
Unlike Mozart concertos Chopin's don't include a Cadenza.

I think Mozart wouldn't have written concertos like Chopin because Chopin had a new, revolutionary way to use the piano. It's his greatness. He have the most beautifull, expressive melodies and a very uniqe pianism.

Whoever said this sentence probebly reffered to the shape of the classical concerto. But who it was...?
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Pianoman1992



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 61
Location: Horsham, Pennsylvania (half an hour away from Philly)

PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason, I just find that classical structure of a concerto (or sonata) very boring and predictable. It seems kind of strange that Chopin would revert to the old ways with his concerti considering he revolutionized and changed many other genres vastly.

Don't get me wrong, I love Chopin's concerti, and they're not nearly as predictable and boring as Mozart's (don't get mad Embarassed ), but I wish he had kind of left his mark on the genre more.
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Dean



Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pianoman1992 wrote:
For some reason, I just find that classical structure of a concerto (or sonata) very boring and predictable.


You mustn't forget that since Mozart's period the world of music had unbelievably changed. Mozart's piano concertos didn't seem in the 18th century as they do today. Simplicity and brightness where their idials.
However, Mozart did amazing thing that where very powerfull. He is brighy but yet very beautifull. Chopin adored him!

Chopin's magnificent piano concertos built the same way but are totally different. But I also think sometimes that may be using the old classic structure limited his freedom of expression. He always prefferd the unrestricted forms such as the ballades or the scherzi. But even them such as the nocturns and valses where written in a classic structure of A-B-A . or similar. So i don't really know. He may felt good in the structured forms.
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chopin
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Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chopin composed his concertos in the early years before he came to Paris. During this period he prefered the traditional form of music, so we don't see any dramatic changes in the structure of his concertos from Mozart's way. Maybe he had not been recognized and accepted in Parisian society yet, so he didn't want to take risk in changing the concerto form.

I still like Mozart's concertos. They are so beautiful!
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