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Virtuoso

 
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wanderer



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 1:29 pm    Post subject: Virtuoso Reply with quote

Liszt is more virtuosic than Chopin, right? Is this because Chopin didn't want to show off?
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lol_nl



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Ede, Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In his compositions, yes.

In his playing, we don't know. Liszt himself was very impressed by Chopin's playing, not only by its charm but also by its virtuosity. The reason Liszt is a famous concert pianist is not because Chopin didn't want to show off, but because Chopin didn't like performing. He got nervous every time he had to perform. In total he performed less than 30 concerts in his whole life. He was better at playing in fairs in Paris, for the rich ladies Smile.
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wanderer



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe his fragile health affected Chopin's style and performance? although Liszt also had a lot of piano works in Chopin's style.
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MorrisseyMan



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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Location: Gold Coast, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Because of Chopin's physical weekness, the sound of the piano was drowned out in the concert hall. I read somewhere that, towards the end of his life (his 30s), he became so week that he always played piano and pianissimo, just different shades of the two. This sound didn't even reach the back of a concert hall designed to carry the sound from the stage. If you can imagine this, imagine adding an orchestra on top of this. Apparently, an un-accompanied version of his F minor concerto was more popular then one with an orchestra, because you could barely hear the piano.
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wanderer



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2006 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MorrisseyMan wrote:
Because of Chopin's physical weekness, the sound of the piano was drowned out in the concert hall. I read somewhere that, towards the end of his life (his 30s), he became so week that he always played piano and pianissimo, just different shades of the two. This sound didn't even reach the back of a concert hall designed to carry the sound from the stage. If you can imagine this, imagine adding an orchestra on top of this. Apparently, an un-accompanied version of his F minor concerto was more popular then one with an orchestra, because you could barely hear the piano.


I don't know about the unaccompanied version of the concerto. There are versions for 2 pianos in the market. I still prefer the original ones.
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enchantedpianist



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Vietnam

PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MorrisseyMan wrote:
Because of Chopin's physical weekness, the sound of the piano was drowned out in the concert hall. I read somewhere that, towards the end of his life (his 30s), he became so week that he always played piano and pianissimo, just different shades of the two. This sound didn't even reach the back of a concert hall designed to carry the sound from the stage. If you can imagine this, imagine adding an orchestra on top of this. Apparently, an un-accompanied version of his F minor concerto was more popular then one with an orchestra, because you could barely hear the piano.


Is that reflected in his late compositions? Are most of them soft?
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wanderer



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not all of them are soft but the tendency seems to suggest so. The mazurkas toward the end of his life is very very soft. The final year works sound more melancholic and hopeless...
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Pianoman1992



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 61
Location: Horsham, Pennsylvania (half an hour away from Philly)

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that they both were equally good at playing the piano. However, as you all have said, Chopin didn't really want to "show off" and use speed in his compositions for the sake of speed. A common impression among people who aren't really into classical music is that the faster and louder a piece is, the better it is. This could be why Liszt is usually thought of a virtuoso moreso than our dear Chopin.
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wanderer



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Chopin dedicated his first etude set to Liszt since he thought only Liszt could play it effectively. I can infer that Chopin admitted that Liszt's technique was superior than his. I don't know if Chopin really played all of his etudes. Even the great Horowitz could not play all of them.
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enchantedpianist



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Vietnam

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, after Liszt met Chopin, Liszt somehow changed his composition style from virtuosic exposition to meditation and simplicity. I may infer that Liszt realized that involving brilliant technique didn't make a composition a masterpiece. Twisted Evil
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nocturne



Joined: 15 Jul 2007
Posts: 26
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol_nl wrote:
In his compositions, yes.

In his playing, we don't know. Liszt himself was very impressed by Chopin's playing, not only by its charm but also by its virtuosity. The reason Liszt is a famous concert pianist is not because Chopin didn't want to show off, but because Chopin didn't like performing. He got nervous every time he had to perform. In total he performed less than 30 concerts in his whole life. He was better at playing in fairs in Paris, for the rich ladies Smile.


HAHAHA It's true Liszt was maybe a "ladies man" in concerts, but Chopin was a RICH lady's man Laughing
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nocturne



Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wanderer wrote:
Well, Chopin dedicated his first etude set to Liszt since he thought only Liszt could play it effectively. I can infer that Chopin admitted that Liszt's technique was superior than his. I don't know if Chopin really played all of his etudes. Even the great Horowitz could not play all of them.


WAS Chopin's technique weak? His thumb was malformed or something, which apparently aided him to reach larger intervals despite his hand size. Something like that. Hmm...is this true?
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