OURCHOPIN FORUM Forum Index OURCHOPIN FORUM
CHOPIN: THE POET OF THE PIANO
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   
Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Anyone who may have analyzed Piano Sonata No. 2

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    OURCHOPIN FORUM Forum Index -> Music theory
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Manolito Mystiq



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 6
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Anyone who may have analyzed Piano Sonata No. 2 Reply with quote



The intro is bugging me. I see a Db (only root), E (only root), C#5, F7sus-F7, right?

Why is there first a Db and then a C#? Has this to do with triad relationships (E with C#)?

I lend a book, which was recommended at wikipedia. Although it is for sure an informative book, it only says about this part, that: 1"The opening is a shock, beginning with a suggestion of the wrong key, D flat, which turns quickly to B flat minor."

It says nothing about the E, C# thing. It does say something very interesting, that the four bars are an integral part of the exposition and should be repeated as well, instead of repeating from bar 5, which should've been a double bar, not a start repeat bar. The German edition is fault, the French and London ones aren't.



I just analysed both the first Prelude and Fugue in C major by Bach. This seems like a totally different league.

---
1 Charles Rosen - The Romantic Generation
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
chopin
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:39 pm    Post subject: Different opening notations Reply with quote

There are different versions for this opening. They use different notations but basically the same notes. Should the chord analysis be different?

Version 1: C sharp



Version 2: D flat

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Pianoman1992



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 61
Location: Horsham, Pennsylvania (half an hour away from Philly)

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone have a clue as to what the original manuscript showed? That would definitely allow us to see what Chopin was thinking a little better.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
chopin
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 9:10 pm    Post subject: Analysis by Charles Rosen Reply with quote

Below is extract from the article by Charles Rosen. Read the full analysis in the attached pdf.
http://www.ourchopin.com/others/RosenChopinSonata.pdf

It is interesting that I heard the version played correctly by Angela Lear and I found it strange Embarassed


------------------------------------------

There is a serious error on the first page that makes awkward nonsense of an important moment in the opening movement. The repeat of the exposition begins in the wrong place.

The opening is a shock, beginning with a suggestion of the wrong key of Db which turns quickly to Bb . When it comes back, it is now the right key, as the exposition has closed in Db. The opening four bars have a double function: a dramatic beginning, and a transition from the end of the exposition back to the tonic. The left hand, unharmonized, resolves the
cadence a measure before the right. This is a device used with equally astonishing effect by Chopin a few years before the sonata, in the Scherzo in B minor, op. 20, written in 1832. It occurs in measure 569 at the beginning of the coda. The effect here is perhaps even more startling because it is not prepared rhythmically as in the sonata.

The opening of the sonata is exactly twice as slow as the rest of the exposition. (Chopin's direction for the new tempo is Doppio movimento, and the usual concert performance of the first four bars as three or four times as slow is absurd, a thoughtless attempt to make the beginning more pretentious.) Two bars of the quick tempo equal one of the slow (marked Grave), and at the end of the exposition Chopin returns to the original slow tempo with long notes two bars in length so that the transition is wonderfully smooth.

A phrase that is both an initial dramatic motto and a modulation from the secondary tonality of the exposition back to the tonic is a remarkable conception: even more significant is the carefully worked-out realization in terms of the rhythm, harmony, and texture. When we reflect that the misprint in almost all editions has gone not only uncorrected but seemingly
unnoticed for more than a century, I think we may reasonably decide to give very little weight to the standard critical opinion that Chopin's treatment of the sonata form is uninteresting.

------------------------------------------
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Yahoo Messenger
Manolito Mystiq



Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 6
Location: The Netherlands

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I got that book. But as I said, it didn't said anything about the C# notation.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
wanderer



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That E note in the bass is really weird. It has no relationship with other chords. Everything is in Bbm or Db major.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    OURCHOPIN FORUM Forum Index -> Music theory All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1


 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group