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CHOPIN: THE POET OF THE PIANO
 
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wanderer



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:45 am    Post subject: original form/title? Reply with quote

Can anyone list what Chopin invented in musical title/form?
Etudes are conventional titles, conventionally defined but with new status. Scherzos are conventional titles but newly defined. Ballades are totally new titles.
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lol_nl



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Ede, Netherlands

PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ballades aren't totally new. In literature many of them have been written. Though Chopin made a composition of the Ballade, unlike his preceeders who simply wrote "pieces".

Scherzi have never been composed on their own as long as I know. Chopin made dramatic pieces of the joyful movement of a sonata.

Etudes have never been written in Chopin's way, in the style of Etudes de Concert. Their intention had always been nearly 100% concentrated on technique and paying no attention to music.

Preludes, Sonatas, Impromtus, Baracolles, Tarantellas, Waltzes and Variations have all been written before Chopin did.

Though Chopin didn't invent Nocturnes, I think he played a very important role in the development of the Nocturne. With John Field only I don't think the Nocturne would've made it to such a great fame nowadays.

Same story with the Polonaises and Mazurkas. Especially the Mazurkas probably won't have "survived" without Chopin. They are traditional Polish dances and would've vanished through the centuries if nobody composed pieces of them like Chopin did.
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Yiteng

"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music." - S. Rachmaninov
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wanderer



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the etudes de concert is at Chopin's best. Did you try Czerny's Etudes Op.740. They're not just for practice. Many of them are really good.

I agree that scherzos are really dark under Chopin's hand, maybe with an exception of No.4.

Field's nocturnes lack the contrasting middle section and they are so simple to play.
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enchantedpianist



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 41
Location: Vietnam

PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm practicing some of Czerny's etudes 740 and found them really interesting. At least they're not just "etudes".
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MorrisseyMan



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
Posts: 16
Location: Gold Coast, Australia

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We musn't forget the Polonaises. Now, others wrote them (Bach, Mozart and Beethoven wrote some) but Chopin restored them to the Polish harmonies and rythms. He kind of re-invented the genre, like the Nocturnes.
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Pianoman1992



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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Location: Horsham, Pennsylvania (half an hour away from Philly)

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was never too fond of some of his polonaises (the C-sharp Minor one is a little bit boring for me) but most of them are just brilliant. He completely reinvented the dance, and I think that some composers (Liszt, etc.) might have started to compose polonaises because of Chopin's.
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chopin
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Joined: 24 Jul 2003
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Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MorrisseyMan wrote:
We musn't forget the Polonaises. Now, others wrote them (Bach, Mozart and Beethoven wrote some) but Chopin restored them to the Polish harmonies and rythms. He kind of re-invented the genre, like the Nocturnes.


Interesting! I didn't know that Bach/Mozart/Beethoven also wrote polonaises. Could you give me more details so that I can start looking for them? Thanks.
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Pianoman1992



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 61
Location: Horsham, Pennsylvania (half an hour away from Philly)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only have heard of Bach writing them. I'm pretty sure some of them are in Anna Magdelena's (spelling?) Notebook. They're nowhere near the scale of Chopin's polonaises, though. The polonaises by Bach that I have seen are very light, and usually a page long.
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MorrisseyMan



Joined: 24 Sep 2006
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Location: Gold Coast, Australia

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2007 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chopin wrote:
Interesting! I didn't know that Bach/Mozart/Beethoven also wrote polonaises. Could you give me more details so that I can start looking for them? Thanks.


Well, Beethoven wrote his Polonaise in C Major, Op.89. It's not one of his better works, but a nice little romp. You can see how dramatically Chopin changed the Polonaise looking at Beethoven's. And Mozart wrote a slow movement in one of his sonatas as a Polonaise. Not sure which one, sorry.
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Dean



Joined: 12 May 2007
Posts: 21
Location: Israel

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chopin was the first composer to write Ballades and Shcerzi. But he also had a "golden touch" about genres that he didn't invite - everything he putes his hands on (dubble meaning) became just as gold, with totally new qualities. Mazurkas, Polonaises, Nocturnes, Concerti and even Valses (don't forget) and preludes. Sonatas no. 2 & 3 are masterpieces. No one wrote Etudes like chopin, even not Liszt.
Chopin don't have so many works (less then 200 I think, including the youth pieces). Some people complain about the fact that he didn't write for the orchestra, and almost didn't write Chamber music. In his lifetime some wanted him to write the first polish opera but he didn't. So does he deserve do be called "a great composer"?
Yes he does! look how many masterpieces he wrote for the piano. Such a big part of his music is masterpieces. What do you think?
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Pianoman1992



Joined: 07 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be ridiculous for anyone not to call Chopin a great composer, even if he mostly wrote for the piano. Think his constant innovations!! I mean, he invented the ballade and concert etude and redefined every other genre he wrote!
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chopin
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Joined: 24 Jul 2003
Posts: 72
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I agree. He composed exclusively for the piano, and he was among the most brilliant in that field. The piano played a very important part in classical music of the 19th century. So, no one could ignore his contribution as a great composer in music history.

People might say that orchestral composition is harder than piano composition. That's not really the case. The quality of whatever one does is more important than the nature of the work itself.
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lol_nl



Joined: 18 Sep 2006
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Location: Ede, Netherlands

PostPosted: Tue May 22, 2007 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. The easier something is, the harder it's to master it. Because so many people can do it, you have to be very good to distinguish yourself from the crowd.
Same applies to Chopin.
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Yiteng

"Music is enough for a lifetime, but a lifetime is not enough for music." - S. Rachmaninov
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